JOURNAL
Interview of Brent BecVar
with Bruce Davis
Bruce Davis: Thanks for joining me for this interview, Brent.
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Brent BecVar: Thank you for the invitation, Bruce. In response, I have to say, anything that might be relevant for a CVA Journal article about the “so-called me” would reflect innumerable influences in my life. I've been very fortunate to have a wonderful family, amazing friends and associates and many worthy and dignified teachers. At this stage of my life, I often feel like I'm being carried along on the river of Dharma. I still look for inspiration around me and ask for guidance when I need it. But Grace is a big factor. Being born with Libra lagna, I often look to my relationships. I feel I’m always in formation and am an agglomeration of a lot of those significant people and experiences that have influenced my choices.
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Bruce: Your recent article on Purusharthas in the CVA Journal has been greatly appreciated. You indicated that the four “aims of life” can be helpful in self-inquiry. Would you share a bit more about using the practice of inquiry?
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Brent: The Purusharthas are powerful tools for self-inquiry. Exploring this theme was the intention for the CVA Journal article recently. We can always stop and inquire which of these life aims are motivating us in any moment and get a sense of who we are and where we are in our lives. I believe many seasoned astrologers utilize this approach. But there may be newer astrologers who might not have used the Purushartas this way. Self-inquiry has always been such a fruitful practice in my own life.
BD—Is self-inquiry in this sense something like prayer?
Brent—I think that's an interesting question. The process for me often starts as inquiry, asking myself, “What is Dharma now? How may I align with a sense of my purpose?” The prayer part comes, I think, in releasing the inquiry to what we might call “the Something Bigger.” We can begin to surrender and say, “Okay, I’m not figuring this out on my own. I need help.” In that moment we open ourselves from the illusion of being a separate entity to connecting with something bigger than ourselves. We could call it Consciousness, Grace, God, Spirit, or something else. It doesn't matter what we call it. What matters is that we open ourselves to that something bigger. And that's when Grace starts to move more easily in our lives. We start to recognize synchronicities that can help give our lives direction. Then we feel the blessings, and things may start to shift for us. Often these openings can follow a period of crisis, a dark night of the soul—a moment when the old, safe identities aren't working anymore.
BD—So, Brent, how far back does your interest in astrology go?
Brent—I've been interested in astrology since I was a child, since I found out there was such a thing. But even as a very young child I was always interested in when someone was born because I seemed to get some insight about them in knowing that. I don't know why that came to me as a child. But, later, when I found out there was something called astrology, I took to it with great enthusiasm.
BD—What were those formative years like for you?
Brent—I entered my Rahu period when I was three years old. It was a turbulent time for me. The Rahu period brought a lot of restlessness and dissatisfaction, and I often didn’t feel a clear connection with myself. I had been raised in the Catholic church, for better or for worse. It wasn’t always such a good experience but I did come away from that indoctrination period with a sense of knowing how to pray. Prayer was and still is important in my life—asking for help from time to time, opening to the Consciousness that's always available to us.
BD—What was your first introduction to the Vedic tradition?
Brent—When I turned twenty-one, I entered Jupiter period and my whole life changed. I found myself launching into a significant phase of my own spiritual journey. When I came out of Rahu period and into Jupiter, I couldn't learn fast enough and began to seek out many spiritual teachers of higher consciousness. I was fortunate to meet Swami Satchidananda in 1970 who became my first formal Guru and I made a beeline for his ashram, the Integral Yoga Institute in Boulder, Colorado. He was such an impressive person and a beautiful teacher. I'm always so grateful to him. Very quickly I became a yoga teacher under his training in the Sivananda tradition, teaching classical yoga practices, Vedanta and the Yoga Sutras. That experience and the profound influence of Jupiter Mahadasha really set the tone for me. It became my race to run for a very long time after that, even until now. To this day I’m so grateful for that initiation with Swami Satchidananda and also many other teachers. Eventually, when I came to work for Deepak Chopra thirty-three years ago, I felt I was still carrying the momentum of what I learned from Swamiji.
BD—Many Vedic Astrologers took their first exploratory steps into Western tropical astrology. Was that true for you?
Brent—Yes, I had studied the Western system for about twenty years. It always felt like a suit of clothes I wanted to wear. I really felt there was something important in astrology and I wanted to squeeze into that suit of clothing. But, for me, it just never quite fit. I stayed with it for a long time, and it was frustrating because I very much wanted it to work.
BD—What was it like for you when you became aware of Vedic astrology?
Brent—I first encountered Vedic astrologers back in 1991, when I came to Massachusetts to work for Deepak Chopra. We were visited by several Vedic astrologers at that time, and there was one Jyotishi with whom I had a very direct connection. When he showed me my Vedic chart, I was so intrigued because it was like the “suit” of astrology I'd been wanting to squeeze into suddenly fit like a glove with Jyotish. Utilizing the Sidereal Zodiac, of course my chart revealed a different ascendant, and everything else in my chart shifted into positions that made so much sense to me. From that moment on I never looked back. I began to seek out anyone who knew anything about Vedic astrology, have other Jyotish readings and eventually connect with a number of established teachers of Jyotish.
BD—What steps did you take when you began to learn Vedic astrology in earnest?
Brent—I started attending the American Council of Vedic Astrology Conferences in the mid-to-late 1990’s. I met a lot of Western Jyotishi’s including Dennis Flaherty, David Frawley, Dennis Harness, Jim Kelleher, Sat Siri Khalsa, and many others. I felt really at home with them like I was with the members of my own tribe. I just couldn't get enough of it and I attended many of those conferences. I was also fortunate to meet some of the well-known international astrologers there like Bepin Behari, B. V. Raman, K.N. Rao, Chakrapani Ullal and Dr. T. S. Vasan. I was very grateful for that early exposure to Jyotish.
BD—After this initial period of exploration, did any particular teachers emerge who inspired, taught and supported your Jyotish development?
Brent—K. N. Rao became a big influence and I had good fortune in spending time with him. I made several trips to India to visit him there and he was very gracious to me. He is also Libra ascendant, and it was a time when he was being very generous to Western visitors. We would go and visit him at his home in New Delhi, and he also invited me to accompany him to the school he founded, the Bharatiya Vidya Bhavan. I encountered many brilliant Indian students there. I was a bit intimidated and humbled but also very inspired.
It was eventually through Penny Farrow that I met my most significant Jyotish teacher. Penny had become a student and apprentice of Hart de Fouw. I had read something that she had written about Hart, and it impressed me so much I thought this is someone I needed to meet.
BD—Did you then meet with Hart de Fouw?
Brent—I did. I first had a reading with him once when he was in San Diego, and it was actually an astonishing reading. He went right to the core of some very specific issues that I still think about frequently. It's been very helpful for me to get that deep perspective which I think is what is a good Jyotishi can do for someone. I think of Hart as one of the most significant Jyotish teachers available to us in the West. He's retired now but I was so fortunate to study with him over about thirteen years. He was teaching in Marin County, near San Francisco, and I moved there to study with him. I liked the group of people around Hart and I didn’t want to miss the opportunity to study with a teacher like him. He had a very close relationship with his own guru, Shri Krishnan Lal Mantri, for fifteen years or so. I feel that we among Hart’s students received Shakti of the Jyotir Vidya from Mantriji through Hart. Studying within that group of really smart people challenged me and really kind of set me on my path. It became the key for me in learning enough of the skills and insights of a practicing Vedic astrologer to eventually develop the Vedic Counseling Program at the Chopra Center.
BD—You’ve had amazing good fortune with the teachers you’ve encountered. Any others you’d like to mention?
Brent—I have to say that Deepak Chopra, among teachers and influences in my life, has been among the most significant overall. When I first met him through a very synchronistic series of circumstances, I felt the great desire to work with him. Since then, over thirty-three years, he has continued to be a significant influence for me—both as a friend and mentor. After Massachusetts our lives took us out to California where, with Dr. David Simon, we developed the Chopra Center for Well Being and continued to work closely together. I had a variety of different roles there: administrator, teacher, program director and therapist among others. Deepak gave me many opportunities to develop myself, and I always felt aligned with his mission and with his Dharma. I think his principal message is about living Dharma.
At one point we were on a trip in India where we met Swami Visnudevananda Maharaj, who was then the Shankaracharya of Jyotir Math in the north of India. This is a very high spiritual position in the lineage of the seventh Century Indian sage Adi Shankara (“original” Shankara). Shankaracharya had invited Deepak to visit and to acknowledge his work in bringing Vedanta to the West, and I was grateful to be invited by Deepak along with several others to join him on that trip.
BD—What came of this meeting?
Brent—It was at a moment in my life when I was trying to understand what was next for me in terms of Dharma, and I experienced a powerful moment there with Shankaracharya. It was in Allahabad, the winter ashram of Shankaracharya. The meeting began with a big ceremony with Shankaracharya and many monks who attended him, and there was much chanting and recitation of many mantras. I was in awe of the whole experience. When the ceremony ended, Shankaracharya wanted to talk to Deepak in private.
BD—I guess you can’t get closer to the source of Vedic wisdom than meet with the Shankaracharya in India!
Brent—It was an amazing experience. He acknowledged all the Vedic programs and practices that we were teaching at the Chopra Center. But something more happened that was truly transformative for me.
After the ceremony, I went outside by myself. I was in the courtyard and there was a shrine to Adi Shankara. I was all by myself and I thought it would be a good place to sit, pray and meditate for a bit. As I sat there, I was asking for guidance, “What is Dharma now? How? Where? What direction should I go?”
When I finished praying, I stood up and started to walk away. Suddenly I looked up and about fifty feet from me was Shankaracharya by himself, standing on a balcony peering down towards me. Immediately I felt something like an electric shock go through me. I felt like there was nothing hidden in me; everything was seen somehow. I don't know how to explain it other than that. It was one of those moments when I didn't feel separate anymore. I no longer felt like a “me.” In that moment I felt invisible. But at the same time the experience felt so freeing. Then he stood up and just walked away. That was it. Nothing was said. There was just this moment of feeling completely seen.
BD—A profound moment!
Brent—It was. And it felt like a starting point for the work that followed. The connection with Deepak and his role in my life and my work continued after that more deeply than ever. Shortly after that experience, Deepak called me into his office and said, “I want you to bring Jyotish to the Chopra Center.” And I said, “You want me to create a Jyotish program here?!” In my mind, I'm thinking, “You want me to do something I really love to do and make it part of my work?” Well, that part sounded great. But in the next moment I said to him, “Deepak, I think I need three more lifetimes of study! This is such a huge subject, and I'm not sure that I'm qualified enough to represent you on this on this big stage where you're operating.”
He pointed his finger at me and he said, “You've been preparing for this for a long time. This is your Dharma!” And I said, “Okay, whatever you say, chief!” But I had doubts I could actually do it.
That started a long process of developing what I ended up calling the Vedic Counseling Program of the Chopra Center. It involved a complex process of sending clients birth data to the Shankaracharya’s ashram and India, where Jyotishis there would delineate and write about the charts in their language. Then it would have to be translated into English, hand typed and faxed back to me. It was an excruciating process. But it’s what Deepak had requested and I didn't see any other way than to do it.
After a while, it became really obvious that the interpretations we were getting back were not relevant for the Western clients at the Chopra Center. There was a woman from Venezuela, whom Deepak really respected, who said to me, “You know these interpretations are not very good. It’s not really representative of Deepak and his work.” And I said, “I have to agree with you.” I was pretty dejected by the truth of her statement.
I went to Deepak and told him that the readings from India just weren’t working. I was ready to give up the whole thing. I shared with him the comment from this woman. He looked at me and without missing a beat said, “Well, you do it. You do the interpretations.” So, I began doing the delineations myself, studying and doing the best I could to make them worthwhile for our Chopra Center clients. That was over twenty-three years ago, and I'm deeply grateful every day to Deepak and to Shankaracharya for providing me with that Dharmic opportunity.
BD—How have you woven the teaching of meditation and other Vedic practices into your use of Vedic astrology with your clients at the Chopra Center over the years?
Brent—Spiritual practices became one of the main themes when I was talking with people about their Vedic charts. I pointed out all the things I saw in their chart, and then almost always came to a point where I'd say, “Well, if you want to transform these Karmic patterns, you can. You can start to meditate and begin these other yogic practices I’m recommending.” Teaching meditation was another of the things I was doing a lot of over all those years, because I felt that it was the best remedial measure I had to offer my clients. Meditation and inner transformation were really the key. Over the years a lot of people got inspired to begin regular meditation.
BD—What do you feel is the most valuable part of the reading for your Jyotish clients?
Brent—I think my most essential role as a Vedic astrologer is to hold up the chart as a mirror (Darpana) and help people to feel seen without any judgment or limitation. Hopefully I can show them that they have more potential for making evolutionary choices than they may have realized before. We're not limited by our charts, and we're not the victims of the grahas. I think all of us want to be seen just as who and what we are in our deeper nature. It is comforting and can also be liberating. It helps give us the ability to accept ourselves, to love ourselves and to be more at peace with ourselves. My intention is that clients feel seen with compassion. When somebody comes to me looking for help, insight or guidance, I can’t help but feel compassion. And I want to shine some light, some of the Jyotir Vidya, on their situation so that they feel more hopeful. Much of the time that seems to be the exact medicine that's needed.
BD—Can you say a little more about Jyotir Vidya and how we may be able to shine some of that light
for our clients?
Brent—More and more I appreciate Jyotish as the Science of Light and how it's all about light and opening to the light. We live on light, and at the same time it is truly our deeper nature. Understanding and observing how the mind is a reflection of that inner light, much as the Moon and planets reflect the light of the Sun, helps us to see reality and phenomena more clearly. We might say that the Sun is the source of our physical eyes and the eyes of every creature that has eyes. If you will, the Sun creates the many eyes that in turn look back to see the Sun. We might say that the Sun wants to be seen. Like that, as sentient beings, our own essential nature as the Light of Consciousness wants to be seen. Ultimately, there is only One Light, and sincere inquiry into Jyotish as a spiritual practice and into our own deeper Nature helps us to recognize that truth
BD—Do you think it’s useful for clients to contemplate the character of their planets and signs?
Brent—For me these archetypal themes are universal. I believe the grahas, with these unique planetary themes and identities, are part of our collective life. They've been part of human experience forever, really. We're not separate from these greater bodies. We live within the various rhythms: the circadian rhythms, the lunar rhythms, the seasonal rhythms and the planetary rhythms, as well. We're not separate. My interest is to invite people to begin to be curious about all this. They may not completely understand the planets in depth, but they can be curious about their influences. Sensing the character of the planet is almost like a sutra. When we inquire into a sutra, we allow the influence and deeper meaning of the sutra to open up within our awareness, giving more insight into our karmic patterns. Some clients seem to be ready for this deeper way to approach the planets, constellations and cycles through their Vedic chart.
BD—You have facilitated soul work for many people. Do you have a sense of how many you have taught during your fifty-year career in yoga, meditation, counseling and Jyotish?
Brent—I sometimes think of myself as being a “transformational facilitator.” I don't call myself that, but I think that's a role that I've played with many of the people I was able to influence over the years. I really don’t have any idea how many people that might actually be! It’s not something I think about. Many thousands of people, anyway, individually and during retreats, and I always hope I’ve made a difference in their lives. It was a privilege to be given those opportunities.
BD—Many clients are first and foremost looking for predictions. It’s as if they see their astrologer as an arbiter of their fate, and indeed this is the role that many Vedic Astrologers espouse. What is your approach?
Brent—The contrast between the dynamic of fate and free will was what I was emphasizing at the end of my CVA Journal article on the Purusharthas recently. I don't think we do our clients any service when we attempt to tell them their fate. I don't believe people have the right or the ability to do that. For me, our better role is to encourage clients to explore the talents gifts and abilities that they have and encourage how to use them to make better choices in their lives. Of course, karma often does play itself out. But my hope in a consultation is always to increase their free will and potential by expanding consciousness.
Some clients will ask me, “What’s going to happen in my life?” I always struggle with that. I don't want them to give up their power and project it onto me or anybody. As Vedic astrologers we can be like a river guide who has a little broader perspective about the twists and turns ahead based on the client’s chart. And we can hope to share that perspective with them in a helpful way. They're not just drifting in a boat without oars; they're not just a victim, even in difficult periods of their lives. What I want them to get from their readings are the opportunities available during this time of their life. Every planet has its challenges just as every planet has its blessings. As a transformational facilitator, I want them to sense the potential value to them of both the challenges and the blessings.
BD—What would you suggest to aspiring Vedic astrologers who would like to live a full professional career in this work, as you have?
Brent—I think if people are wanting to find a career in Vedic astrology, they first need to have a sense of their own Dharma. “How can I authentically contribute whatever talents gifts and abilities I have and be of service to the whole?” And we don't just squeeze that out of our brains. We have to ask our Higher Selves for guidance and direction in Dharma. I didn't get into this work as a career. I just surrendered and asked to be guided and I was very lucky that I got to do a variety of related things that I actually love to do. Through all these years of teaching meditation, guiding retreats, giving Jyotish consultations, starting the Vedic Counseling Program at the Chopra Center and doing public speaking, I think my life was guided by a desire to align with Dharma. That continues to be my advice, to look for Dharma first, (what am I really here to do?) because then the work takes care of itself. It just continues to be a privilege every day. Sometimes we have to go through a dark night of the soul before that realization happens. We may have to be on our knees saying to the Universe, “OK, I just want to do what I'm meant to do. Please show me what it is….”
BD—What would you say is the role of the Vedic astrologer in this time of upheaval, conflict and change throughout the world?
Brent—I think we're very fortunate to be Vedic astrologers right now because it is such a potent time of transition and transformation. Jyotish offers so much in the way of guidance and context to help support people. We have the potential to shift into a time of becoming more aligned with the greater body, rather than being isolated. More and more we don't want to separate ourselves from that process of expansion. Jyotish gives us tools for opening ourselves to other people and to the Universe. I believe that Jyotish will continue to come into its own. That's true also of other symbolic expressions of the human condition, and there will be abundant opportunities for people to realize their higher potential. But I think it's going to be symbolic, creative, mythological, artistic, and even musical in the sense of harmonic attunement.
BD—You’ve contributed to the CVA Journal twice this year with your article last spring and this interview for the fall issue. What does being a CVA member over the years mean to you and your practice? And, how do you envision your own work unfolding in the coming years?
Brent—My sincere desire is to continue to align in new and creative ways with my own essential nature and with Natural Law, in such a way that I may contribute something to the welfare of the whole. That's been my deep wish for a long time. I would also like to further expand my community of like-minded people who are sincere students and practitioners in the Vedic Sampradaya and Jyotish in particular. Our CVA Journal, our CVA organization and CVA’s broad membership offer a lively and intelligent forum for varied and diverse explorations into Jyotish. I’m grateful to be a participant in this unfolding development as Eastern knowledge systems become integrated into more enlightened Western understanding. I feel this knowledge of Jyotish continues to provide so many profound gifts for understanding ourselves and how we may live worthy and awakened lives. It is a language that truly makes sense to me. I feel I have so much more to learn and am deeply grateful for the influences of gifted others, like many of our CVA members who are dedicated to understanding these subjects and sharing their insights. Although I have done some teaching and writing over the years, I can say I’m eager to continue learning from others. I’m also waiting for a nudge from the Universe to further collect my thoughts and wonder what I might actually contribute to what is being written and taught by others. I’m waiting and looking for inspiration and opportunity!
BD—To conclude our conversation, Brent, how might you recapitulate in short what has obviously been an amazingly varied and productive career?
Brent—Gratitude, gratitude, gratitude for all the blessings and opportunities I’ve been given. I'm grateful to Jyotish every day of my life and the opportunity to engage with other people in such an intimate way. I would encourage people reading this interview to pay attention to aligning with Dharma and to live a life guided by service to the welfare of the whole. We all have our parts to play!